Joshua Redman |
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Fri. October 25.2002 5:28 PM EDT |
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Josh Redman: Stretch It Til It SnapsJazz saxophonists Elastic makes a pop-friendly groove that's got both brains and brawn. by Jim Macnie |
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Joshua Redman (VH1.com) |
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Some people think jazz and pop should be wary of each other. Others believe that while theyre surely distinct styles, they sound great when intertwined. Joshua Redman is one of the days most compelling jazz stars, and his take on the subject is
The new Elastic may be his most progressive step toward making the twain meet. Funk beats and pulses lift many of the records tracks - the soul, rock, and hip-hop he heard growing up remains in the front of his mind. Elastic also hurls keen melodies into the air. Redmans got a knack for writing singable tunes. Aided by keyboardist Sam Yahel and drummer Brian Blade, he sculpts this new music to be intricate, airy, and charged. A year ago this trio called itself Yaya3, and it stuck to a more orthodox jazz territory. But with the effects gadgets being applied to Redmans horn and Yahels keybs, theres a textural leap being made. Like revered 1970s electric jazzers Weather Report, the Elastic band is about hard-line improvising and natural grooving. No wonder the jam band fiends have begun to take notice. VH1 spoke to the Berkeley-raised bandleader about the historic jousting of jazz and pop, the power of funk and swing, and the five discs that would turn a rock zealot into a jazz head. VH1: Youve been the Artistic Director of the San Francisco Jazz Festival for the last few years. Joshua Redman: Ive always considered myself a listener over a player. I didnt get serious about playing music until 10 years ago, when I moved to New York. But Ive been serious about listening to music literally since the day I was born. So I probably have more experience for a gig like artistic director than I do for a gig like saxophone player. One thing I learned in San Francisco is that [curating a music series] is not just as simple as making a mixed tape. I have eclectic tastes and Im used to hearing John Coltrane next to Jimi Hendrix and James Brown next to Ornette Coleman. But that doesnt work for audiences all the time. I like to expand an audiences view but not alienate them. So theres a real balancing act there. VH1: But arent things getting better in that realm? In 2002, are those worlds of rock and jazz and funk getting closer? Arent we on the road to perfecting across-the-board listening? Redman: My conception of perfection is inactive diversity, where youve got all these individual artists, sounds and styles and they come together in this utopian melting pot. And thats how I experienced music from an early age - all these great sounds, all these great artists having a conversation in my head. But as human beings we have a tendency to categorize and separate. And I think todays music world is still very segmented. Radio is formatted - thats unfortunate. But ultimately people will trust their ears. So if you get it to them, theyll respond with their heart. VH1: Thats your Berkeley upbringing coming out. Redman: Exactly. Peace and love, baby. VH1: These days jazz players are doing tunes by the Beatles and Stevie Wonder and Radiohead and Joni Mitchell. You were one of the first young jazz artists to include modern pop songs on your Timeless Tales disc. What prompted you to put Prince and Joni and Dylan together? Redman: It wasnt a big deal for me to record a Prince or Joni Mitchell song, because I dont hear those artists, first and foremost, as non-jazz artists. I hear them in the same way I hear Sonny Rollins or Charlie Parker - individual creative artists writing great songs. For me the litmus test is of whether or not I play a song hasnt been what style does it fall into? But does the song speak to me and do I feel I can play it an original, personal way? VH1: But you knew that Eleanor Rigby in a jazz setting wasnt the norm. Redman: Yeah, but jazz musicians have always drawn upon music outside of jazz to inspire them - specifically pop of the day. There was Miles with Surrey With the Fringe On Top, and Coltrane with My Favorite Things. You know, I kind of feel that is the norm. Maybe today theres a wider musical disparity between modern pop and modern jazz. Or at least in peoples minds, pop and jazz have grown apart. Perhaps its harder for a modern jazz player to find a pop song to inspire him or her - something that has the meat for them improvise on. On the flip side I dont believe that a jazz musician has the responsibility to play pop music. If a song doesnt speak to you, its interpretation is not going to be creative. [Watch Clip] VH1: How wide is your pop interest? Name a pop group that your jazz audience might be surprised that youre into. Redman: Hmmm. Led Zeppelin. People dont associate them with jazz. But Led Zeppelin IV and Houses of the Holy were like bibles to me. I went through a phase where Zeppelin was all I listened to. Theyve been blamed for a lot of bad music that came in their wake. But they were an incredibly musical band, and a deep, substantive band. Plus: they rocked. [Watch Clip] VH1: What was the last pop show you saw live? Redman: Whats that tour called? Smoking Grooves? The Roots and Lauryn Hill and Outkast - theyre cool. It was in a huge amphitheatre. What I love about the Roots is their organic quality. Hip-hop is a very produced style, a mechanized style in a lot of ways. But they play it in an acoustic, natural way. Thats always attracted me. The best hip-hop musicians, whether or not theyre using electronics, still have that quality. And thats been important for me to realize in making the transition from acoustic jazz to electric jazz. With Elastic, were experimenting with new sounds and new instruments, but were trying to keep the musics raw feel and the improvised nature. One of the big challenges for me on this was to play music that grooves and uses a wide variety of sounds, but not lose the flexible and interactive feeling - the jazz feeling. We tried to walk that tightrope, and I think we made it to the other side. [Watch Clip] VH1: How does the YaYa 3 sound differ from the Elastic music? You have the same musicians with you. Redman: I dont think it would have worked if we planned it. If you had told me two years ago that I was going to do an electric, groove jazz project with a keyboardist, and drummer and myself I would have said youre out of your mind. I was envisioning something much grander and larger. The reason it worked was it happened naturally. We were a group before we started on the new music. We started playing at a great New York club, Smalls. And at that time it was the organist, Sam Yahels group. We developed a repertoire and chemistry doing modern, acoustic organ jazz. And at a certain point, almost on a whim, I decided to bring in some of the newer music I was working on. I just wanted to hear it being played. And instanteously it all fit together. I realized we could groove and play this music with the power and clarity it needed, and at the same time improvise - keep it fresh and free. A lot of times you have to choose between groove and freedom. We now have both. VH1: Jam band fans are already taking notice of this new turn. If they embrace you, itll be like an army taking over. Are you aware of the community and its power? Redman: Absolutely. Im not an expert in that community, but the thing I love about the jam band movement is that its dedicated to improvisation. It takes many different forms, and sometimes it can be as simple as a guy jamming over a one-chord groove, but whats great is that the musicians are dedicated to playing something new every night. And the audience is dedicated to wanting to hear that. I think thats important, and it kind of runs against a lot of trends of todays popular music. Over the last few years, pop has become more and more produced, more planned, more processed. That doesnt mean its bad. But it does means theres less and less room for improvisation. In a lot of the productions, the singers are basically lip-synching. The dancing is incredible, and the spectacles amazing. I like a good pop spectacle as much as any the next guy, but its important to have an alternative to that. The jam band is an alternative to the trends. They communicate and spread the word without having to rely on the traditional engines of the pop machines. [Watch Clip] VH1: Youve interacted with pop musicians. Have you ever joined a full-fledged tour? Redman: No. Ive sat in with plenty. The Rolling Stones, Dave Matthews Band, Meshell Ndegeocello, The Roots. Id like to&if the right opportunity came along. VH1: How were the Stones? Redman: It was in Saint Louis, a big concert that was broadcast live, a pay-per-view that was turned into a video and a record. I played on Waiting On a Friend, and it was a double honor, because I got to play with the Stones and the original saxophone player on the track was Sonny Rollins, who is my ultimate hero. VH1: What about Dave Matthews? Redman: Great. What are they, the most popular band in the United States? Thats what people say. Theyre clearly one of the most successful bands in the world. Yet theyre committed to jamming. Their songs have sections, but theyre improvising. They have a great attitude, and its inspiring to see that theyve been able to navigate this huge pop success and not compromise who they are as a band and not lose touch with their creative roots. I didnt know their music that well. We had sound check and they played me a couple tunes and got the harmonies and I went for it. Id like to have another shot at it. VH1: Is funk an easier language than swing for people to get into? Redman: Hmmm. Great question. I think its more familiar. I think people feel more comfortable with a backbeat rhythm, a rock rhythm, because its more a part of todays culture. Swing rhythms alienate audience more. And its odd for me to be saying that, because its not my main experience. People hear a backbeat and they can relate. We play these backbeats, but theres a lot of swing in there. The way Brian Blade plays&he refuses to accept any distinction between different styles. When he plays a groove its funky, swinging and locked-down and free all at once. I think were able to play this stuff specifically because of Brians rhythmic conception. And he helps listeners make the connection between the styles. VH1: What band have you always believed has had a killer groove? Redman: There are a lot of killer grooves out there. James Brown, the Meters, Earth, Wind & Fire, the Commodores, Led Zeppelin - John Bonham is the Elvin Jones of rock n roll. Hendrix had a killer groove. Jazz groups, too. Coltranes quartet. Keith Jarretts band. Oscar Peterson. Groove isnt style specific. VH1: Youve got a tune called Jazz Crimes. Whats it mean? Redman: On one level its a kind of making fun of a certain jazz attitude, of stylistic purity. I believe in purity, but not in style, in feeling or spirit. Jazz is a very impure music and thats whats great about it. It can interact with all different styles and still preserve its integrity. On this new project, were interacting with other styles, and thats a move that might upset purists - a crime against jazz. So its poking fun at that idea. VH1: Some critics have said its close to contemporary jazz, or lite jazz. Is that a dirty word? Redman: If youre talking about instrumental pop jazz, what people call smooth jazz, thats any more contemporary that most acoustic jazz. That label has been misused. Thats why Branford Marsalis call is second-to-last record Contemporary Jazz - specifically poking fun at the idea that smooth jazz was contemporary and acoustic jazz was traditional. I considered everything Ive done contemporary. But if theyre likening it to smooth jazz, I dont think theyve listened closely to the music. Weve been influenced by none of that music. And substantively it has almost nothing to do with what were trying to accomplish. [The criticism] would bother me more if I didnt expect it. A lot of people dont listen, they just look. They look at the instrumentation, the line-up. They hear an electric instrument or backbeat, and come up [with wrong conclusions]. [Watch Clip] VH1: Youre one of the jazz player who have made a point of getting booked into small places across the country. Your tours have taken you into tiny towns as well as the big places like Chicago and L.A. and D.C. What did you learn out there? Is America hipper than you thought? Redman: Absolutely. You learn that those not-so-hip areas are quite hipper than you think, and the hip places aint all that. Thats not to take anything away from the New Yorks and Chicagos. But there are people out there in this country and other, if given the opportunity to hear creative improvised music will respond. They get it, and not just on an intellectual level. In fact thats less important than getting the feeling, the immediacy. I actually find that the cities that are offered less jazz get that feeling quicker, because theyre not as jaded and theyre not immediately trying to cross reference what theyre hearing to their album collection. That stuff is great. Its great to read liner notes and know the names and histories of your favorite artists. But it can get in the way. Its important to be listening to the music when the music is played, which is not the easiest thing to do. [Watch Clip] VH1: Thats what I try to explain to new people who I take to hear jazz: Lets not talk about it until the walk home. Just let it hit you, first. Redman: Im always interested to hear what other people heard in the music Ive played. The sophisticated elements of the music are very important to us in the Elastic band. Were not playing one-chord jam music. Were playing complex harmonies, complex rhythms, complex forms. But were finding a way to do it with the feeling and physicality and emotion of the music. VH1: What discs would you recommend to a person who wants to get into jazz but knows nothing about it? Redman: Miles Davis Kind of Blue. It creates a mood, and sticks with it. People respond to it. Yet its one of the deepest albums. Then, John Coltranes A Love Supreme, which has an intensity and energy that truly communicates to people. Then I would say&Ella Fitzgerald & Louis Armstrong - their first disc together. It just feels good, and has loose jam kind of feel. Two more&.I think Ornette Colemans The Shape of Jazz to Come. People think free jazz has no structure, but one of Ornettes great contributions is that he escaped boundaries without losing lyricism and melody. Last would be Weather Reports Heavy Weather. They struck the balance between rock rhythms and the use of surprise and freedom. Plus: great tunes. [Watch Clip] |
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