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Ladies First
Rap was strictly a boys-only playground until Salt-N-Pepa and Queen Latifah came along to change our ideas about posturing. With her literate raps and feminist perspective, Dana Owens not only won a Grammy for her hit "U.N.I.T.Y.," but also has carried her tough talk into movies and TV. Here she explains how a girl from Newark, N.J., reinvented herself as Queen of all media.
VH1: Back in the '80s, was there a female rap movement that paralleled today's gangster rap?
Queen Latifah: You had groups before N.W.A really came on the scene. You had Salt-N-Pepa and MC Lyte out already. You had Roxanne Shante and you had the real Roxanne. You had Sweet Tee and Jazzy Joyce. There was a little rush just before N.W.A and all gangsta rap stuff kicked in.
VH1: Were there obstacles being a woman involved in the rap scene?
Latifah: I never felt any type of intimidation. If anything, I had a lot of people coming up to me saying "I like you," Ice-T, Doug E. Fresh, and Biz Markie, and just like a lot of the rappers that were out at the time and had platinum records, they gave me respect when I came in the game. A problem came with the labels, with marketing and promotion money; there was still this stigma of a girl not being able to sell records. Salt-N-Pepa were the exception to the rule because they came out on an underground tip but then they went pop with "Push It." They just blew up, so their record companies put money behind them. But there were a lot of females that came out and didn't sell at all. I think it was more about the kind of records they were making than it was the fact that they were females. A few of us had to fight to get our record companies to kick up the money that we needed to go to where we needed to go.
VH1: What was your image and your content?
VH1: My songs were about a lot of different kinds of things. The first single was "Wrath of My Madness" and it had this reggae hook and it was more melodic. "Princess of the Posse" was on the other side of that and that had a little reggae feel. It wasn't something that was done in hip-hop music a lot. I just enjoyed incorporating other kinds of music into my rhythms. "Ladies First" was my second single and that got me noticed even more. And "Dance for Me" had this sort of Afro-centric image, even though I was your typical 17-year-old kid. I would buy these hats that were designed really nicely. My whole vibe was more about black positivity and pride. Female positivity and pride. I wouldn't say I was a feminist, which was what a lot of people categorized me as when I first came out because I guess we share a lot of the same principles.
But I just felt positive about myself and I wanted other women to feel the same way and I could have chosen the male-bashing route. "Guys ain't this and guys ain't that and they don't do this and they don't do that," but I was more focused on what we don't do as females and if we don't go for that then they can't pull it on us. So let's feel good, positive about ourselves, bring our self-esteem up.
VH1: Who have you been most influenced by musically?
Latifah: Musically I've been influenced by a lot of different people. People like Teena Marie, she was a rapper, too. Stevie Wonder, Luther Vandross, MC Lyte are definitely some of my biggest inspirations. Boogie Down Productions, Public Enemy. A lot of rockers inspired me. Red Hot Chili Peppers are my No. 1 group in a lot of ways, and I like to incorporate different kinds of music into my music. On my second album, Nature of a Sista, I tried a whole bunch of different stuff. I'm influenced by club music, house music. I'm from Newark [New Jersey] and that music is big where I'm from. I made a record called "Come Into My House," which was a straight-up club record. "Give Me Body" and all that made me think how the flamboyant gay guys used to tear clubs up [with their] voguing.
VH1: Can you talk about the sound of Tommy Boy?
Latifah: Tommy Boy got up on a lot of things real early. They had some of the biggest records out back in the days that were underground. De La Soul got signed just before I did. Tommy Boy had a broad ear, whereas you go to some labels and they just couldn't understand this music that you're bringing them. They would never get it so they wouldn't know what to do with it. Tommy Boy had a good ear. And they signed people who reflected that. Even with hip-hop. Myself, De La Soul, Digital Underground. That's three totally different groups - still hip-hop, but totally different.
VH1: Do you think Tommy Boy's success came from the fun, happy rap style?
Latifah: De La Soul got a little sick of that daisy age thing. People think we're hippies or something and they weren't hippies, you know? I don't think just about making fun music. They gave us artists the freedom to create whatever we wanted to create, and if it was fun music it was fun music. If it was serious it was serious. And then Naughty by Nature got signed. "O.P.P." was a record that just blew up - a phenomenon across the country. They weren't even expecting that. Here's a video that cost about $18,000 to shoot, and turned into the biggest record in the country.
VH1: How common is it now for black artists to have control over their careers?
Latifah: The awareness of the economics of this business has grown. It used to be "Oh, I just want to get signed. I just want to hear my record on the radio. I just want to perform." But your music is making somebody a lot of money. You hear enough horror stories and you go broke enough times and you decide, "I need to control my destiny a little more." We were one of the first production deals around; that wasn't a common thing. This was 1990 and not a lot of people were doing this, but we did it. As awareness grew people want more from their contracts. They want that production deal. If they see a couple artists that are talented, they want to try to get them signed and get more on the business side of it. N.W.A understood the economics. People out here were just doing distribution deals like "I'll pay you for my album and I'll pay to market my album. You just distribute it." And they're getting the big chunk of the money and they're doing very well. That's why you got Master P and you got Cash Money; they're doing it. They understand the economics of this. If you have the money to get it off the ground you can really take it there and then you own it, which scares the sh*t out of the major labels, which is kind of fun.
VH1: Did you learn about publishing from others who came before you, or did you have to figure it out by yourself?
Latifah: I didn't own all my publishing when I first got signed. I gave up some of my publishing and I really did not understand the significance of that. When I left Tommy Boy to go to Motown, there was no way I was giving up my publishing because it was really about a steady stream of income. And even though you hear the horror stories of the past, when you're a hungry artist who wants to get signed you just want to get signed. And sometimes you're willing to do things that you truly do not understand. And even though my lawyer tried to explain it I really didn't get it until the records started to sell and I'm like "Wow, I gave up a lot of my publishing for nothing." And it was like "OK now you're gonna pay me for this or I'm just gonna sit at home and chill." So I did get money for it, but I've owned my publishing ever since. For some artists the awareness of what publishing really is gives you a little more power.
VH1: How did Stevie Wonder inspire you?
Latifah: Stevie Wonder sits on the top of my list right next to Prince. Right next to, honestly, Teena Marie. She's one of the best. I hope you guys include her in this even though she's not black. She might as well be black. She has contributed as much to this music, as far as I'm concerned, as any other major black artist. I look at those who wrote and produced a lot of their stuff and I look at Stevie Wonder. I read those credits and I can't believe he wrote this. I can't believe he thought about this. I mean, this guy was talking about everything, you know? Stevie Wonder's music has followed me through my life. Through loving for the first time. Through getting my heart broken for the first time. Through losing a loved one. Through strained friendships. He has a record called "Too High" about a girl who was getting too high who died at the end of the record. This is awareness about drugs in the '70s. When everything was supposed to be so free and so great. Well, people were OD'ing, too. Popping the pink pill, the green one, the yellow one - this guy was talking about all that stuff and his harmonies, his arrangements, and his innovative music. He always tried different things and that's why he was always ahead.
VH1: Did he influence you to sing about important issues in your music?
Latifah: Definitely. Listening to Stevie's music makes you feel not afraid to talk about anything. As long as the record is tight. Make the music tight because that's what makes you able to talk about whatever the hell you want. People are gonna listen as long as the record is tight. You can be talking about a pole in the fence, you know? But as long as they put it together and make it sound hot, people are going to listen to it. The music was always tight so he had the freedom really to get into social issues and political issues, race issues, things that were hot topics. Some people just wanted to make love songs all day. Stevie, Marvin Gaye? These guys didn't just sing about love all the time. When your brothers and sisters are getting their asses whooped on the streets by prejudiced cops, you know it's not always about love. That's what's happening now. That's the whole reason [the phrase] "keep it real" came out in the mid-'90s. It was like, "Let's talk about how grimy it is out here." That's why a Wu-Tang can come out and blow up like they did because they came with that realness. "This is my experience and it ain't all rosy, but let me let you know about it." That's how N.W.A made tight records, but they talked about gangsters and crooked cops and all that kind of stuff, and if they wouldn't have come out with those records I wouldn't have ever known about Crips and Bloods. I wouldn't have known anything. I didn't know what was happening on the other side of the country with my people in the hood. People want to criticize gangster rap but it brought about an awareness about what was going on.
VH1: Back in the '80s, was there a female rap movement that paralleled today's gangster rap?
Queen Latifah: You had groups before N.W.A really came on the scene. You had Salt-N-Pepa and MC Lyte out already. You had Roxanne Shante and you had the real Roxanne. You had Sweet Tee and Jazzy Joyce. There was a little rush just before N.W.A and all gangsta rap stuff kicked in.
VH1: Were there obstacles being a woman involved in the rap scene?
Latifah: I never felt any type of intimidation. If anything, I had a lot of people coming up to me saying "I like you," Ice-T, Doug E. Fresh, and Biz Markie, and just like a lot of the rappers that were out at the time and had platinum records, they gave me respect when I came in the game. A problem came with the labels, with marketing and promotion money; there was still this stigma of a girl not being able to sell records. Salt-N-Pepa were the exception to the rule because they came out on an underground tip but then they went pop with "Push It." They just blew up, so their record companies put money behind them. But there were a lot of females that came out and didn't sell at all. I think it was more about the kind of records they were making than it was the fact that they were females. A few of us had to fight to get our record companies to kick up the money that we needed to go to where we needed to go.
VH1: What was your image and your content?
Latifah: My songs were about a lot of different kinds of things. The first single was "Wrath of My Madness" and it had this reggae hook and it was more melodic. "Princess of the Posse" was on the other side of that and that had a little reggae feel. It wasn't something that was done in hip-hop music a lot. I just enjoyed incorporating other kinds of music into my rhythms. "Ladies First" was my second single and that got me noticed even more. And "Dance for Me" had this sort of Afro-centric image, even though I was your typical 17-year-old kid. I would buy these hats that were designed really nicely. My whole vibe was more about black positivity and pride. Female positivity and pride. I wouldn't say I was a feminist, which was what a lot of people categorized me as when I first came out because I guess we share a lot of the same principles.
But I just felt positive about myself and I wanted other women to feel the same way and I could have chosen the male-bashing route. "Guys ain't this and guys ain't that and they don't do this and they don't do that," but I was more focused on what we don't do as females and if we don't go for that then they can't pull it on us. So let's feel good, positive about ourselves, bring our self-esteem up.
VH1: Who have you been most influenced by musically?
Latifah: Musically I've been influenced by a lot of different people. People like Teena Marie, she was a rapper, too. Stevie Wonder, Luther Vandross, MC Lyte are definitely some of my biggest inspirations. Boogie Down Productions, Public Enemy. A lot of rockers inspired me. Red Hot Chili Peppers are my No. 1 group in a lot of ways, and I like to incorporate different kinds of music into my music. On my second album, Nature of a Sista, I tried a whole bunch of different stuff. I'm influenced by club music, house music. I'm from Newark [New Jersey] and that music is big where I'm from. I made a record called "Come Into My House," which was a straight-up club record. "Give Me Body" and all that made me think how the flamboyant gay guys used to tear clubs up [with their] voguing.
VH1: Can you talk about the sound of Tommy Boy?
Latifah: Tommy Boy got up on a lot of things real early. They had some of the biggest records out back in the days that were underground. De La Soul got signed just before I did. Tommy Boy had a broad ear, whereas you go to some labels and they just couldn't understand this music that you're bringing them. They would never get it so they wouldn't know what to do with it. Tommy Boy had a good ear. And they signed people who reflected that. Even with hip-hop. Myself, De La Soul, Digital Underground. That's three totally different groups - still hip-hop, but totally different.
VH1: Do you think Tommy Boy's success came from the fun, happy rap style?
Latifah: De La Soul got a little sick of that daisy age thing. People think we're hippies or something and they weren't hippies, you know? I don't think just about making fun music. They gave us artists the freedom to create whatever we wanted to create, and if it was fun music it was fun music. If it was serious it was serious. And then Naughty by Nature got signed. "O.P.P." was a record that just blew up - a phenomenon across the country. They weren't even expecting that. Here's a video that cost about $18,000 to shoot, and turned into the biggest record in the country.
VH1: How common is it now for black artists to have control over their careers?
Latifah: The awareness of the economics of this business has grown. It used to be "Oh, I just want to get signed. I just want to hear my record on the radio. I just want to perform." But your music is making somebody a lot of money. You hear enough horror stories and you go broke enough times and you decide, "I need to control my destiny a little more." We were one of the first production deals around; that wasn't a common thing. This was 1990 and not a lot of people were doing this, but we did it. As awareness grew people want more from their contracts. They want that production deal. If they see a couple artists that are talented, they want to try to get them signed and get more on the business side of it. N.W.A understood the economics. People out here were just doing distribution deals like "I'll pay you for my album and I'll pay to market my album. You just distribute it." And they're getting the big chunk of the money and they're doing very well. That's why you got Master P and you got Cash Money; they're doing it. They understand the economics of this. If you have the money to get it off the ground you can really take it there and then you own it, which scares the sh*t out of the major labels, which is kind of fun.
VH1: Did you learn about publishing from others who came before you, or did you have to figure it out by yourself?
Latifah: I didn't own all my publishing when I first got signed. I gave up some of my publishing and I really did not understand the significance of that. When I left Tommy Boy to go to Motown, there was no way I was giving up my publishing because it was really about a steady stream of income. And even though you hear the horror stories of the past, when you're a hungry artist who wants to get signed you just want to get signed. And sometimes you're willing to do things that you truly do not understand. And even though my lawyer tried to explain it I really didn't get it until the records started to sell and I'm like "Wow, I gave up a lot of my publishing for nothing." And it was like "OK now you're gonna pay me for this or I'm just gonna sit at home and chill." So I did get money for it, but I've owned my publishing ever since. For some artists the awareness of what publishing really is gives you a little more power.
VH1: How did Stevie Wonder inspire you?
Latifah: Stevie Wonder sits on the top of my list right next to Prince. Right next to, honestly, Teena Marie. She's one of the best. I hope you guys include her in this even though she's not black. She might as well be black. She has contributed as much to this music, as far as I'm concerned, as any other major black artist. I look at those who wrote and produced a lot of their stuff and I look at Stevie Wonder. I read those credits and I can't believe he wrote this. I can't believe he thought about this. I mean, this guy was talking about everything, you know? Stevie Wonder's music has followed me through my life. Through loving for the first time. Through getting my heart broken for the first time. Through losing a loved one. Through strained friendships. He has a record called "Too High" about a girl who was getting too high who died at the end of the record. This is awareness about drugs in the '70s. When everything was supposed to be so free and so great. Well, people were OD'ing, too. Popping the pink pill, the green one, the yellow one - this guy was talking about all that stuff and his harmonies, his arrangements, and his innovative music. He always tried different things and that's why he was always ahead.
VH1: Did he influence you to sing about important issues in your music?
Latifah: Definitely. Listening to Stevie's music makes you feel not afraid to talk about anything. As long as the record is tight. Make the music tight because that's what makes you able to talk about whatever the hell you want. People are gonna listen as long as the record is tight. You can be talking about a pole in the fence, you know? But as long as they put it together and make it sound hot, people are going to listen to it. The music was always tight so he had the freedom really to get into social issues and political issues, race issues, things that were hot topics. Some people just wanted to make love songs all day. Stevie, Marvin Gaye? These guys didn't just sing about love all the time. When your brothers and sisters are getting their asses whooped on the streets by prejudiced cops, you know it's not always about love. That's what's happening now. That's the whole reason [the phrase] "keep it real" came out in the mid-'90s. It was like, "Let's talk about how grimy it is out here." That's why a Wu-Tang can come out and blow up like they did because they came with that realness. "This is my experience and it ain't all rosy, but let me let you know about it." That's how N.W.A made tight records, but they talked about gangsters and crooked cops and all that kind of stuff, and if they wouldn't have come out with those records I wouldn't have ever known about Crips and Bloods. I wouldn't have known anything. I didn't know what was happening on the other side of the country with my people in the hood. People want to criticize gangster rap but it brought about an awareness about what was going on.
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